I don't think this will satisfy DarthNefarius, better make them all super easy again. Oh and nerf Wormholes too!

Silly changes to be honest. It's not the 10% isk nerf that is killing incursion fleets, nor is it the influence bar although it was definitely better earlier. It's the pacing that's an issue, fleets running into roadblocks with sites not worth running.

If isk was their only concern, and it seems it really was, rollback ALL changes and nerf all incursion profits, including LP by 50% in high sec, 30% in null sec and leave low sec as is and the incursion community would complain about the nerf in the short run, but in the long run people would actually start running them again. The isk gained would drop significantly, but still be at comparable levels to l4 missioning (topping it slightly, when you're in a good fleet, and being roughly the same with junk fleets vs. non optimal l4 runners).

Because that's the same dev team, right? Jesus you high sec people get bitter easy

On the feedback side of things, thanks for still watching this ccp, though I do fear this may not be enough of a buff, especially when considering OTA's. And given the large nerf that was random triggers, I would have like to see an overall buff to payouts, instead of just vanguards.

So now you've destroyed the (already terrible) war dec system, you're following up with winding back high sec nerfs? Nice one CCP.

While I agree with the incursion bar changes, buffing isk reward in high sec is simply a quick fix. One that in the long run is just going to continue turning older players away from the game.

At Fanfest, CCP's economist stated that Incursions added 9+B ISK per month to the Eve economy, compared to a total ISK faucet in the game of 56B (as I remember). CCP's unwillingness to believe there was any problem for so long with this new game feature was simple ostrich tactics.

I am on record as saying that CCP made far to many changes to the Eve economy with Escalation and Inferno. But, to simply roll-back virtually all changes and ignore this ISK badly leaky faucet is CCP at its best: responding only to lost subscriptions. Simple solution would be, first, tighten the ISK faucet *soon*, then work on issues of difficulty next (and not some day far off).

CCP will find that while sticking its fingers into all the leaking holes in the Eve economic dam that vermin have infested each particular hole and bite it. CCP needs to tough it out, get bitten, or risk continued spiraling inflation (which CCP seems to feel is a problem).

Step 1: Remove incursions from hisec

you talk about 9Bill a mounth more isk in the game... well what about ALL the stuff that dosn't drop when you blow up other ship's ..

and incurtion ship have the fit value of like 4 bill. and when this ship explode. only 15% of the moduls drop, we are talking about officer and faction module witch dosn't drop, thy get distroied.

and this is just incurtion runners. in PVP this is the same. a ship dies. and all you get is the enemies ammo. no realy good loot from there modules.

don't talk about putting ISK into the game. when the Drop rate of Combat Loot takes 200% more out of the game.

if you want to make incursions interesting and fun again make it more realistic like pvp instead of a isk grinding activity which it mostly is you do vanguards in shiny fleets and ignore all others.
you wouldn't use battleships to kill frigs i mean who thought of that?.

I have to take my hat off to you, sir, for the ability to say that with a straight face.

Thought is was a 50% increase going from high to low/null? Do you count this as nominal or do I have the numbers wrong?

Thank you for this important clarification.

Unfortunately, your confidence in "reverting them ... [to an] ... almost pre-escalation slate to start from" may be materially misplaced.

In the hierarchy of factors that have changed the nature of incursions, what you are rolling back pales in significance to the impact of the trigger changes. To genuinely make incursions "almost pre-escalation" would require a roll-back that reinstates the triggers and removes the WoW-like dungeon grinding.

Do note, I'm not necessarily advocating that rollback, just pointing out the potential hole in your assumption.

The reason such a community was built up around them is because

a) They provided good isk so, over time, competant fc`s started to run them with thier mates in good ships ( = good isk)

b) They are realtivly fun, by this I mean there more engaging than missions and other things like that.

Add to the incursion system, make more gameplay elements its a solid foundation.

P.S
If you nerf the isk down too much people will go back to doing other things, hence the community crumbles.

WE talked, joked and laughed, trolled each other and other fleets, and oh yeah made some isk while we were doing it. Most of that isk went to the PVP alts in various alliances and pirate corps in null/low. So when you null tards start whining about hi sec carebears making risk free isk you have no idea what your talking about. The communities stopped because some/most people just did not want to do assaults/hq and enjoyed the fast pace of the VG and the contest instead. Take the fun out of anything and see how long people will stay. The current state of Incursions is proof of that.

Incursions cannot be risk free because to do them you got to undock. Anytime you undock you are at risk.

This is very true, a large portion of incursion runners I ran with were either pvp chars or obvious nullsec alts.

No i wouldnt say they are at all, its the big nullsec battles, the things individual corporations and even a single man can do in the game that really drive the story. Incursions were more like a mutual benifactor for everyone involved. A lot of times i saw 0.0 enemies together in the same incursion fleet.

Yes I also totally agree with you about the community, hence why when incursions droped out of favour, mass portions of the so called 'incursion community' went back to what ever they did before.

I for one would personally love it if it was the members collecting resources for thier corp / alliance. Similar to how resources are gathered in a RTS. Ive allways seen eve more as a real time strategy game than a space combat sim. Obviously has elemnts of both.
Incursions were at least something half decent to do pve wise.

Missions: Different missions available dependent on system security.
Exploration: Different sites available dependent on system security.
Anomalies: Different sites available dependent on system security.
Belt Ratting: Different NPCs available dependent on system security.

Incursions: Identical across all security regions with a nominal alteration in payout.

I remember fleeting up with Reds on several occasions. Even someone I had killed recently. He told me in fleet chat he was looking forward to a rematch and was planning on using the incursion funds to pay for ships to do it in. I was doing the same thing saving up isk to buy stuff to support my null sec agenda(CAPs and a POS and POCOs and new drakes to get blown up in)

THIS IS THE PROBLEM PLEASE LISTEN TO THE FEEDBACK OF PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY RUN INCURSIONS CCP DEVs!!!
Its not the ISK of the Individual sites. The inluence bar is a secondary problem AFTER the OTA's can finally be tackled by less then shiney fleets but the 2 'rollbacks' you are proposing are NOT going to change the reason why Vanguards have FLOORED.

( NULL/lo SEC just cannot field the shiney ships required for OTA's due to the risk )

Here is an idea that you might be able to squeeze:

Instead of 10% increase payout to Vanguards, just increase OTAs by let's say 50% and/or tweak they curve so a 15 pilot fleet gets full payout (they are almost as hard and take as long as assaults right now). Now, this would just be just a temporary stopgap until you can rebalance them.

The idea is to make OTAs at the very least worth the grind. This change along the influence one could inject new life to all incursions short term and should be pretty easy to implement i guess, right?

As far as long term, you could make payouts dynamic based on number of sites/hr completed so incursions sites left untouched slowly increase their payout while blitzing fleets get paid a little less for each site they complete.

Dear CCP,

that seems good, but there will be still the problem that larger sites won-¦t reward to effort. So it would be helpful if you add a 15% more payout for AS and 25% payout increasement for the HQ. Then lets hope that all FCs, who decide to boycott incursions will come back and that the playerbase to recruite from will be normalized through the changes you will implement.

Incursions that loose Concord protection are inherently not highsec incursions. Either way you are asking for the same thing.

" But the fact remains that CCP essentially murdered what was previously a growing, vibrant player community. "
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/06/rollback.html

Dear Simi Kusoni,


This will be much lesser then before the nerf of death. And it will complete the goal CCP had, with bringing more people into larger sites. But there are currently 2 major problems for larger sites:

1. Too small playerbase to recruite from
2. Payout not really more or less then small VGs

And last but not least, of course a 20+ man fleet should have the possibility to earn more money as a singleplayer in lowsec. Becuase Highsec does not mean there is less risk.

Rolling back the 10% doesn't change really much.
- Fix OTA
- Boost Assaults and HQ rewards

AS and HQ pay too less compared to VG. They are more risk, need more people, need more work, need more attention. So they should pay better.

I am waiting to see how little impact wiping out Incursions had on the overall ISK generation, so the anti-high sec folks can scream "nerf L4's!!!". But maybe they have to wait on that one. Given the significant drop in people logging on, there will be a decent drop in economic activity from that alone, which will not give them a strong base to argue from.

LOL....still using that tired old line?

It reminds me of another grand farce.
****** ******* has weapons of mass destruction.
Oh, he doesn't have any?
Never mind, it was about regime change to make the world a safer place.

Same concept as the crap you keep spewing out.

More broken promises...
"We promised to monitor the result of these changes and we stand to our promise: after evaluating both your feedback and our internal metrics, we have decided to roll back a few changes. With so many tweaks made at once, it became very difficult to determine the success of each individual change. We have rolled back the following changes:

GÇóLowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10%
"
Ever hear of QA?
Before the escalation NERF HI SEC Vanguard Incursions paid out 10.5 million and now they pay out 10.395 million... CCP TROLOLOLO

But better then quival over an effective 9% rollback instead of the full 10% why don't we look at the real numbers? Where are they?
The Override Transfer Arrays have made the Vanguards UNBALANCED there is no other 'individual change' which more UNSUCCESFFULLY KILLED THE INCURSION COMMUNITIES. How is that for feedback?

this... wtf happened here? why is this guy back?

Here's an update on the balancing of Vanguards: as of 0625 Eve time in the Norgoh constellation 27 OTAs, 0 NCO's, 0 NMC's. oh well I guess in 4 hours 35 minutes the sites will reset. Since its a holiday in the states I expect the OTA 'balance' will be near 100% OTAs ~12 hours before DT instead of ~18 hours today.
Hmmmmm I wonder why the Vanguards have floored CCP Soundwave, you want to guess? Wait another 2 months maybe then you'll see a pattern

What is the status and do we get an update?

Why cant we roll back the good ole days to where it was isk worthy to run incursions.